A little something for everyone in this episode of 120 Months, as we talk about early Concrete Blonde, peak New Order and later-stage John Lydon (in the form of Public Image Ltd.).
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Episode 9 – Sept 1987 (150 downloads )TRANSCRIPT
And welcome back to 120 months. We’re doing a deep dive on MTV’s 120 minutes. We’re going month by month, picking some songs and videos that were played in that month, talking about the band, talking about the song, maybe talking about something tangently related to the same.
It just kind of depends on whatever strikes are fancy, but this week we are going to be talking about, where are we? August? No, September.
September of 1987. Is that right? Yeah, September of 1987.
And we’re just, yeah, we’re blowing right through that 1st year. So that’ll be fun. We’ve got Keith Porterfield and Scott Mobley alongside, my name is Michael Millard.
Thanks for tuning in today, and we’re going to kick things off with Keith. All right. Well, for today, I have picked a song called Still in Hollywood by Concrete Blonde.
And this is another one that I picked because it takes me back to a very specific time and place. I’ve mentioned in the past that I graduated from a small high school. My graduating class was only about 150 kids.
And so that fall after we graduated. There were 5 of us that were going to UT Austin, 5 guys that went down there. And we kind of formed our own little clique at the time just because we all knew each other.
One of the guys we didn’t see as much of because he pledged a frat. But one of those dudes was actually a pretty good friend of mine. This guy, I had known him, you know, my entire time of school we met when we were kindergarten, went to school together through the entire time.
And this guy from day one, like it was junior in junior high was always kind of ahead of the curve on music. First time I’d ever heard rap music, like back in the early 80s. was from this guy, and I don’t know where he was getting his information or, you know, his music stuff from. But he, like I said, always was ahead of the curve.
And so, uh, in high school, he was like really instrumental kind of in driving my musical tastes in the direction they ended up going, you know, towards whatever you want to call it, modern rock, alternative, indie rock, whatever it is, he kind of really helped me down that path because I remember, I mean, I knew some of the stuff and it was really high school when I started going down in that direction. But, you know, I knew, you know, psychedelic fur and echo and the bunny, but just from like John Hughes movie soundtracks. But I remember at one point asking this dude to make me a tape of just some new stuff, just stuff that I could check out, and it had some cure and new order stuff on it that I had never heard before.
That was how I discovered that the cure had really killer B sides back in the 80s. It was the 1st time that tape was the 1st time that I’d ever heard ministry. 1st time I’d ever heard violent films. 1st time I’d ever heard butthole surfers. So like I said, I don’t know where where this guy was getting his information, but he was ahead of the curve and just like kind of, you know, I was getting music information from this guy.
That was how I was learning about a lot of new stuff. And so that fall, after we all moved down to Austin, you know, all hanging out together, for whatever reason, because it was like 4 or 5 years old at the time, the 1st concrete blonde album was in heavy rotation for that dude. So we listened to that album a lot back then.
And I don’t really remember a whole lot about that album except for the song still in Hollywood. I’m gonna beat up a beat and I’m wearing the voices and a beat. Keep on, keep on, keep on.
I’ming need out here now Hollywood My mind, I’m running on a wheel, I don’t know why I don’t know why. Which I just loved at the time. I still love.
I think it’s a fantastic song. But it’s one, you know, I picked it because it, like, totally takes me back to that time, you know, it’s, like, with Balaam and the Angel, we talked about it a few episodes ago, like, that really took me back to my high school days, my 1st vehicle and all that. This one takes me back to that 1st year of college and the 1st time I was, you know, living away from home and being young and free and out there with the whole world out in front of you. you know, it’s just a great time of your life.
When you get to be our age, you try to tell young people that and they don’t want to hear it because you’re an oldster and don’t obviously know what you’re talking about. But man, there really is no time in your life quite like that. And so this song, to me, was like just really heavily associated with that first, you know, time away from home and living away, you know, being free and out there for the 1st time.
So, so yeah, great associations for this song for me. To get back to the song itself. The band concrete blonde.
They were formed in Hollywood back in about 1982. They were active for about 10 or 12 years, and then had a couple of reunions over the years. I don’t think that they’re together at all right now, but their main period of activity was in the late mid late 80s through the early 90s.
The band is largely 2 people. It’s John Napolitano, who’s the singer and bass player, and a guy named James Manke, that was the guitar player. They’ve had a handful of drummers over the years. of drummers have come and gone for them.
One of my favorite things about that, though, is that in the 80s, like their original drummer leaves, and gets replaced by this guy who drums for a couple years, and then the original drummer comes back and takes his place, and then the 2nd drummer comes back and replaces the original drummer again after that. So they, for a while, were just trading out those 2 guys. But they have had a handful of drummers over the years, but primarily the band is John Napolitano and James Manke.
They came out of the LA post-punk club scene and played with bands like X and the go-go’s back then. They had several names back in the day before they got signed to IRS Records in 1986. And oddly enough, it was actually Michael Stipe, you know, who RM was on IRS records at that time.
It was Michael Stipe, who suggested the band name Concrete Blonde to them. They had not been going by that. They had had other names.
I don’t know where Stipe got the idea for that name, but he’s the one who suggested it and they picked it up and ran with it. And so that’s how they ended up being called concrete blonde. For me, concrete blonde is more of a singles band.
I know a lot more about them by song than I do by album. Like I said, I’ve heard the 1st album. I don’t remember a whole lot about it.
There might be a reason for that, which I’ll get to here in a second. But they’ve got a ton of great songs. I mean, God is a bullet is a fantastic rocker.
They’ve got the really killer cover of everybody knows, the Leonard Cohen song that’s on the soundtrack to the movie Pump up the volume, which we actually talked about back on the 35,000 Watts podcast way back when when we did the movie soundtrack episode. We covered that one. And then their most famous song is one called Joey, which is kind of a more of a mid-tempo kind of ballady kind of thing, but man, it is a fantastic showcase for John Napolitano’s voice.
She is a really great rock and roll singer. And to me, that, I think, is kind of the secret weapon of that band is her voice. You know, you might not want her singing in your church choir.
But if you need someone to belt out a rocker. You can do a whole lot worse than Johnette Napolitano. I mean, she’s got a fantastic rock and roll voice, which shows up on this song on still in Hollywood.
This song was on the 1st album, self-titled album, Concrete Bond, came out in 1986. And as I said, you know, I have heard this album more than one time and really only remember still in Hollywood. And the reason for that probably is that this album did not get well reviewed at all.
The critics didn’t like it. So, uh, maybe it was not their best effort, but man, it had this song on it, and this song is just a killer rock and roll song. And that’s it.
That’s how I would describe it. It is a rocker, man. Fast paced, kind of almost punky in its energy.
Her voice, her singing, like really belting it out. I mean, it’s just a fabulous song. I really, really like this one.
The video is pretty cool too, actually. You know, we’ve watched a lot of these 80s videos that have not been terribly great, but this one is kind of grainy black and white throughout the entire thing. It was shot over a couple of days in Hollywood.
So it’s a lot of kind of like B-roll footage around the city, but it is all fast cuts, junk cuts, weird camera angles, like the camera moving as they’re getting the shot. And then the band just kind of rolling around. You know, they’re in a rehearsal space at one point.
It looks like they’re doing like an in-store concert at one point. They’re walking around the streets at one point. The one thing I thought was kind of funny about that.
The video is that the area that looks kind of like the rehearsal space is, actually, it’s an old house, and at one point you see a condemned sign on a door during the video, and that was actually Jeanette Napolitano’s house at the time that they were rehearsing in her house that she was living one, had been condemned. She was living in a house that was in danger of falling down and apparently had to move shortly after that. So you live in the young rock star lifestyle of, you know, of scrambling around and living where you can, I guess, at that point in their career.
That was definitely before they got bigger. You know, they would get bigger later on with albums like Bloodletting. I think Bloodletting is the one that’s got Joey on it, although I’m not 100% certain about that.
I’d have to go and look that up. But anyway, they would get bigger than that later on. This album, actually, like I said, wasn’t received real well, didn’t do really well real well for them.
I mean, they actually had to declare bankruptcy at one point. And so that’s kind of the reason why there’s such a big gap between their 1st and 2nd records. But yeah, to get back to this one.
Like I said, you know, I don’t have a whole lot more to add to it. I really picked this one because of the good associations I had with it, but man alive, this is a fantastic rocker, just a really great song, good video. And like I said, took me right back to a certain time and place that was really, really great for me.
So this was a fun one for me. I really enjoyed it. So, yeah, interesting to see what you guys thought.
So I think like most people, I 1st heard these guys in 1990 when bloodletting came out. And you were right, Joey, is on bloodletting. I cannot express how much I love that album and still do.
It’s just a cover to cover masterpiece. It really spoke to me at that time. I still think bloodletting is a fantastic album.
If all you know on it is Joey, there was another mild hit, and I can’t remember the name of it off the top of my head, but it’s just got fantastic song after fantastic song on it. It was just a monster album. And I was very into that album at the time, very into this band at the time.
So after falling in love with that album. I went and bought the one before it, which I think is called Free, and that’s where God is a Bullet is on that album. And that’s almost kind of a college radio staple, too.
I did not, at the time, think that album was so great, and I haven’t listened to it much since, honestly. So, I never went back any further and bought their 1st album. But damn, I wish I had because this song might as well be called, hey, Scott Mobley, here’s a song for you.
I mean, this is so up my alley. It’s not even funny. I mean, this is definitely more of sort of a pure punk sound that they had when they started versus what they morphed into.
You know, bloodletting is more, the word goth gets thrown around too much, but it’s kind of what it is. It kind of leads into the vampire lore and stuff like that. It was, I think it was definitely sort of embracing the Ann Rice thing that was going on at that time.
But man, this song is just that perfect 80s Hollywood punk sound. It’s like, it’s like the cramps, but a little less goofy or X with cleaner vocals, however you want to describe it. kind of hard to pin down. But this is just great, pure punk music.
And I just, I’m really kind of mad at myself for never finding it because as much as I love bloodletting, I would have adored this, if I had found it at the time and I just never did. So this was a really nice treat for me, I loved this, loved this song. Yeah, this is great.
I don’t have the pedigree with concrete blonde that you guys do. I really just know some of the singles that we played on KTXT back in the day. So thank you college radio for that.
But otherwise, I’d never really, I never really explored their catalog. So this was my 1st time hearing this track and really hearing this side of the band because, you know, everyone knows and and Joey in particular are kind of very different vibes from this. And I was just like, holy crap, this is my, well, my 1st thought was, Scott’s gonna love this.
That was actually the 1st thing I did. And you could definitely, I mean, you could draw a direct line from this through several other, like, you know, post-punk bands, particularly ones with really strong female singers. And the latest one I would draw the line to is Emil and the Sniffers.
Like, this is this. I’m surprised Emil and Sniffers haven’t covered this song. They probably have, and I just don’t know about it, because that is, I mean, this would be perfect for them, because it’s just that upfront, like, fuck you kind of vocal from just a clearly badass chick, and it’s right down the pipe, like, for what you want from like a late 80s, like, punk rocker like this.
Like, great. And yeah, the video not, like, doesn’t let you down. Like it’s, you know, it’s not nothing special’s going on, but it’s, it’s what you want from like a late 80s punk video of just them kind of doing their thing and, you know, it’s a little raw, a little gritty.
So that’s great. And I, uh, you know, the only other thing I can really add to, to just praising it is, uh, I always am, am kind of intrigued by the dichotomy of bands who came up in Hollywood and want to get the hell out of Hollywood and then bands from virtually anywhere else in the country that would die to be playing like this untouched trip and to be in Hollywood and like, you know, girls hopping on buses to go to Hollywood to find their star and and people that grew up there are like, oh my god, I got to get the fuck out of this place. So that kind of struck me as funny.
Obviously, concrete blonde doesn’t strike you as like, you know, a Hollywood quote unquote band that you can tell that they probably, they probably do want to get out of there. But yeah, excellent choice. They kind of, I mentioned it, it’s hard to describe.
It’s hard to pin down. But Hollywood punk music, especially this time, has a thing. And the X has it and the cramps have it, and this song has it.
It’s hard to describe, but it has a sound and this is definitely part of that, whatever it is. Yeah, that sound definitely is there. Like, it’s, I think I’m putting them up against like the image of the movie side of Hollywood or the glamorous side of Hollywood.
But, yeah, Hollywood absolutely has an underground that spawned that, you know, this movement that we’re talking about now. And then, I mean, you know, 80s hair metal, grew up on the Sunset Strip and playing like whiskey and go-go and stuff. I mean, that’s Hollywood.
They don’t really talk about it. Like, you don’t hear people say like, oh, yeah, you know, poison came up in Hollywood, but I mean, they were on the Sunset Strip. That’s the same, essentially the same thing.
Obviously, I lean more now towards the concrete blind X set of things than I do the poison, the crew side of things, but yeah, there was a lot going on there. But yeah, I just thought that was funny and it’s always interesting to see, you know, bands that grew up in that scene or came up in that scene and how they’re kind of wanting to get out of it. And I don’t know, you know, the lyrics be.
They certainly don’t embrace the glamour of it that no, the girl getting off the bus from Iowa does. Yeah, I think you see that in the video. The video, you know, definitely shows kind of the grungier seedier side of Hollywood for sure.
And done on purpose, you know, to hear Jonet Napolitano tell it. Yeah, I would imagine so. Yeah, these days, I’m not sure how much is left of the glamorous side of Hollywood.
I think the CD side has pretty much taken over based on my last couple visits to Hollywood, but anyway, yeah, again, like I totally blown away, didn’t know what to expect going into this because I only knew a handful of concrete blonde songs. And yeah, absolutely top notch, late 80s punk, like fantastic across the board. If you ever have 45 minutes to kill and want to listen to some music, I could not recommend bloodletting any higher.
That album is just fantastic. And it’s, in fact, I would say that Joey is, would be in the, my bottom 3 songs on it. Like, it’s just, and it’s not this.
It’s not punk. It’s more, it’s more goth, more like maybe, if there’s a way to describe like mainstream goth music, usually in the banshees, maybe is the closest thing I can think of. But man, it is, that is just a masterpiece of an album.
I don’t think they were there before that, and I don’t think they did anything like it after it, but for that one moment in 1990, man, they nailed it right on the head. That album is fantastic. I’ll have to go check it out because I really like Joey.
I think Joey’s a great song. I would also recommend if you’re a fan of John Napolitano. If you remember back in the late 90s, all of the members of the talking heads who aren’t David Byrne put together an album that they called, they call themselves the heads, and each song on it had a different singer come in and sing.
And she does a song with them on that album called, I think it’s called Damage I’ve Done, if I remember right. It is a fantastic song. And one of the best kind of examples of her vocal stylings that you’re going to come across.
By the end of it, when she’s really belting out the course and that, and it sounds like she is shredding her vocal cords, she’s screaming through the course so loud. I mean, it’s, but it is a killer, killer, vocal performance and probably the best song on that, that heads album. So if you’ve never heard that particular song, I would also recommend checking that one out, it’s a really good one too.
It’s real, real good. I had that on heavy rotation for a long time, yeah. So I saw that group of people live.
Basically, Jerry Harrison and the Tom Tom Club, you know, are basically talking ads without David Byrne. And it was around the time they were doing that. They didn’t have any guest vocalists or anything, but they were okay.
They were opening for the Ramones. Needless to say, the Ramones crowd did not enjoy them very much. That’s a strange, strange thing to watch.
But I have seen that performed live. Yeah, that’s a weird… Speaking of strange, strange things to watch.
I’m gonna get into my choice now. So this week I got I had the joy of choosing not only one of my favorite bands, but probably my favorite song from one of my favorite bands, so that was a real treat. We’re going to get into New Order.
The song is True Fate. Will never come, I’d see the light in the shade of the morning sun, so drunk that brings me in to the child, I lost to replace my cliff. I used to think that…
The song was actually released, as a lot of newer music was as a 12 inch single, and so not necessarily. New order is kind of weird with like what’s an album and what’s a compilation and what’s a single, like if you, you know, are kind of going back to the catalog, you might get a little confused, but this was a single with 1963 on the B side. So, like, it’s really a double A side in my opinion, because 1963 is also very, very, very good.
This song, to me, and I think there may be some pushback from this from one of the other members of the group here, but we’ll get into that. To me, this is quintessential new order. Like, this is them at the top of their game.
Lyrically, uh, musically, everything about this song, uh, the drums just stomping, stomping, especially if you hear this in a club. The production is top notch. Just everything about this is what I love about New Order.
I assuming we don’t really need to go into who New Order is. I think we’ve probably covered that. But if you’re, for some reason, new to the, like, new order journey and and obviously you kind of want to go back and hit Joy Division first.
But like if you were introducing someone to New Order. Like for me, this would be a song that I’d be like, this kind of sums them up. Like, if you like this, then you’re gonna love a lot of their other stuff.
If you don’t like this, it may be a tough go, you know, to be a new order fan, but I love this song. I love it, love it, love it. I played it as much as I possibly could in the clubs.
I listen to it all the time, still. I will say, in terms of versions of the song, The Morning Sun extended remix, I think, which is on, obviously, if you buy the 12 inch single, it’s available that way, but it’s on New Order, best remixes, which is a compilation that came out a few years back, probably like 10 or 15 years back now, actually. It’s just it has an intro that just really gets you in the mood for the song and I love the buildup to the song that’s in this extended remix.
It’s not like super, super long. It doesn’t it doesn’t drone on for longer than it’s welcome, but I do think it’s the superior version of this song. So if for whatever reason you’re into that kind of thing.
Look for the morning sun extended remix. The other bonus of that is if you watch that on YouTube, you don’t have to watch the actual video for true faith, which I think might be one of the worst videos I’ve ever seen. I do not.
If there was a ratio of how much you love a song versus how much you hate a video, that ratio would be like off the chart for me in this. I just, I’ve never liked it. I’ve seen it dozens of times, so this isn’t like one of those where I’m just discovering the video for the 1st time like it is with some of these other songs.
I just do not like the video, period. And we’ll talk a little bit about it. But I know that there’s a challenge with New Order because live, really, Peter Hook’s the only one that has like a personality in a live setting.
Like the other 3 just kind of do their thing, and there are some performance videos, and I will admit, I’ll be the 1st to admit that they’re not maybe the most interesting videos out there because New Order just isn’t that kind of band. Like they they play their music and they do their thing. And, you know, besides Peter Hook kind of rocking it up a little bit, they don’t really even look like rock stars or act like rock stars and that can be boring.
I get that. So I think, you know, going into this, they were like, well, let’s do something different with the video, they absolutely did do something different. And I mean, if you see something like this out of context or just, you know, this hits you for the 1st time, it’s my, my, my thought was, okay, this is new order, there’s clearly something behind these images that I’m seeing.
They didn’t just come up with this out of nowhere, and they didn’t. Like, these are homages to performance art pieces that have existed previous to new order recording the video. So, like, the video starts with the one that I think most people that see this video, maybe, I’ve only seen it a couple times, remember the 2 people just slap and the hell out of each other in weird costumes, that’s like the most memorable visual.
That is a reference to a video art piece called light and dark, light slash dark. Marina Abramovich and Yule are the 2 people that are in the video. It’s just, you can find it on YouTube.
It’s just like a minute. It’s a man and a woman sitting across from each other just slapping each other back and forth. I’m not everyone to say that art isn’t art.
It is performance art. It’s not one that I particularly care for. There’s not much to it other than that, but it is what it is.
They just slap each other. And so that sequence of of the people slapping each other is a reference to that. Then the overall aesthetic, the surrealism, the slow motion dancing in some places and certainly the costumes and the aesthetic come from Oscar Schlimmer’s Triadishes ballet, I think is that’s German, so I don’t think I’m pronouncing that anywhere near correctly.
But he was an artist with the Bauhaus group. That is also available on YouTube to watch. It is much more interesting than Light Dark, in my opinion, particularly because it was from 1922.
So it’s been modernized somewhat. The version that’s on YouTube is obviously a modern kind of, it’s not like from 1922. It’s a more modern performance of that piece.
But that, to me, is interesting performance art, like the costumes and the movements and everything. You know, what I watch it every day or whatever, no, but it is, it is kind of worth digging into if you want to go down the rabbit hole of how did New Wonder end up creating this, this video. So those are the references and kind of the, that’s kind of what’s behind the scenes of what they were trying to do.
I think my problem is not, not only do I, I just I just don’t think it’s executed all that well even for what it is. So, like, I get that they were kind of going for a thing and I get that there’s, you know, more to it than what you just see on the screen if you’re just kind of watching it for the 1st time of being like, where the hell is this coming from? Go down the rabbit hole, check it out, but I just don’t feel like even even with that, it’s executed that well.
So I do like the performance pieces that are kind of integrated into it. Again, there’s nothing exciting about it. It’s good old straightforward new order doing their thing, but I do appreciate those breaks from kind of the surrealism of the performance pieces.
I will say, and I will admit that I am apparently in the minority. The video has been, uh, according to Wikipedia, the video has often been voted among the best videos of the year, uh, which is 1987, like I said, that we’re talking about sky television’s channel, the amp, rated it as the best video of 87, Smash Hits magazine readers, rated it as the 3rd best video of 87, and it won British video of the year for 1988. So what do I know?
I mean, whatever. Like, I don’t like it. It’s a little weird to me and I think it’s because I love the song so much that I wish I had a better video, but maybe I’m wrong.
Maybe they knocked it out of the park. You guys can tell me what you thought. Well, we’ll start with saying, I think it’s funny that you’ve got a version of the song that you like better. that on a different compilation and the original version of the song is also on a compilation because I believe New Order actually has more compilation albums than they have studio albums.
They’re just one of those bands that I think they do now, yeah. Yeah, every couple of years they’re like, hey, what’s some new and novel way we can collect all of our stuff again? So that was kind of funny to me.
I am a huge new order fan. I love New Order. This is not one of my favorite new order songs.
I have to admit. I do a series of playlists for myself out of my own music library where I try to condense a band’s output down into like 15 songs. And this is not one of my top 15 new order songs and probably not even one of my top 20 or even 25 new order songs.
I know I’m in the movie. How dare you, sir? How dare you?
Exactly. I was just going to say, I know I’m in the minority on that because not only do you love it, but I did a little digging and stereo gum at one point ranked the top 10 new order songs of all time. They had this at number four.
The Guardian ranked the top 30 new order songs of all time. They had this at number one. Yeah, if it’s above number 25 for me.
It’s not much above number 25 for me. So, but that is not to say it’s a bad song. I actually like the song.
It’s just really like new order. And so they just have a lot of other songs out there that I like better than this one. You said, Mike, that you thought this was kind of like the quintessential new order song.
For me, that song would be temptation. Temptation is the one that is the one shot song that if you’re going to listen to one and you’re going to know one way or the other, if you like, New Order, it’s temptation, not this one, but again, not to say that I like, I dislike the song. I really do like it.
It’s just not one of my top favorites. And then, you know, the video, I think I like more than you do, but substantially less than the people that voted at one of the best videos out there because, yeah, it is, it’s not to me a great video. I didn’t know any of those references that you mentioned.
So, you know, hearing that there’s actually something behind it rather than just, hey, let’s get out of here and just do some madcap stuff and see what happens. It’s a little comforting to know that there at least was an idea behind it. So, yeah, I don’t I don’t necessarily hate it.
I don’t necessarily like it either. My favorite part of it is at the end when all of the characters in their weird costumes end up getting into like a WWE style pro wrestling scrum at the end there, like one guy even suffers an atomic drop, one of the most heinous moves in pro wrestling. So that’s always fun. recovery from that.
Exactly. So, yeah. it’s all over for that guy But yeah, yeah, I do I do like the video. I think a little more than you, although it’s not one of my favorites, and I do like the song, although it’s not one of my favorites either.
So, yeah, interesting for me to hear that this was your favorite new order song because like I said, I get it. I think you’re right that all the elements are there and I do think it’s a solid song. But yeah, not one that really is in my top, you know, tier of new order songs, even in like a top 20 or 25 for me.
So we do differ at least on that. But it’s a good song. It’s a video if you’ve never seen it before, you got to go check it out at least once because it is one of the most bizarre videos you’re ever going to come across.
So if you’ve never seen it, go check it out. But yeah, just be ready. It’s definitely a weird one.
So I had a lot of thoughts on this. now that you guys have both spoken about it, I have more. But I was really worried that contrarian Scotty was going to make an appearance today, but I’m actually kind of right between the 2 of you, I think. So I’m glad you mentioned that the new order catalog’s hard to follow because that is 100% true.
Like, there’s compilations and there’s 18 different versions of every song, you know, and a lot of that’s remixes and whatever, but there’s different versions of stuff. There’s recorded versions of stuff. There’s studio albums, but kind of not studio albums and whatever.
So I’ve always had a tough time following this band for that reason. And, you know, I am a fan of theirs. I do like them, but I and I know I’m in a minority when I say this, but I’ve always kind of preferred Joy Division to New Order.
I think it’s just something about the headspace I was in when I heard them both for the 1st time. I remember, like, I discovered them probably around this time because this year, like 87 is when I would have 1st found the cure, like, I remember hearing Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me, and I had heard, um, the cures, uh, pornography. I wanted to say that clearly instead of saying, I discovered pornography about this.
Which is also true, but that’s a totally… That sounds about right, timeline wise, but yeah, so I, and I think based on that, somebody guided me to Joy Division. And then I found out who they were, and they were like, oh, yeah, those guys turned into new order, and I was like, wait a minute.
The guys that recorded fine time. That’s Joy Division, you know? I had never connected those 2 dots.
So once I did, and I went back, you know, to what New Order was doing post-Joy Division. You really do hear the progression much more clearly, you know, as things go on. So, you know, once I went back to the beginning of that, I love movement and I really, really love power corruption and lies.
And I think it’s because of that. It’s because it’s like the best of New Order and the best of Joy Division, kind of meeting in the middle right there. So if I understand it right.
And like I said, their catalog is hard to follow. This is about the time. This is this song was the new song on substance, am I right about that?
Or one of the new songs on substance? Okay. So this is about the time they flipped the switch and become an electronic band.
I think of that era of New Order. Like, I would take Bizarre Love Triangle or Blue Monday over this in a heartbeat. I don’t particularly not like this song.
I think it’s fine. It’s just, to me, kind of a generic version of what they do. You know, I agree with you that it’s kind of their quintessential sound.
And I agree it’s a good version of that. But I just always considered this on to be kind of a generic and, um, you know, and I’m sure their fans probably disagree with that. Although, it sounds like one of you does and one of you doesn’t.
But when I think of the great, like, new order, electronica songs, this just, this one just doesn’t rush to the top of that list for me. It’s fine. And that’s, you know, I’m not saying it’s bad or anything.
It’s just not a favorite of mine, kind of like Keith is saying. So, the video, um, that’s really interesting that they based some of this on Marina Abramovich. I did not know that.
I actually saw her in New York around 2010. She was doing a piece called The Artist Is Present at MOMA in New York. And what it was, was it was like this big retrospective of her work.
And it, you know, she’s a performance artist. So she wasn’t performing all these things, but it was like videos of it and staged things and people recreating things or whatever. And then right in the middle of this giant room, she was sitting at a desk.
And you could go and sit across from her. You weren’t allowed to talk to her. You weren’t allowed to interact with her, you just had to stare into her face for however long they let you sit there.
I didn’t get to do that because the line to do it was like hours and hours and hours. I don’t know why people were so intrigued to do that. Although if there hadn’t been a long line, I would have done it.
But yeah, so I’ve always been sort of fascinated with her. I had no idea that this was based on her work. So that was really interesting to hear.
The video, I do kind of love. I kind of have the same reaction to it that I have to something like, why can’t I be you, which is this is either brilliant or ridiculous, but whatever it is, I likes it. You know, I don’t, I can’t put my finger on the wise of it.
I’m not enough into the whole artistic side of it or the symbolism side of it to go, oh, it means this or it means that, but it’s just kind of, it just kind of evokes a neat mood and it, does it fit the song? I don’t know, but I think New Order likes that. I mean, it’s kind of like with their titles.
You know, the titles of their songs have nothing to do with the song. And I think that’s kind of what they did here too. It’s like, let’s just make a video that has nothing to do with the song.
And just kind of go with mood and vibe and whatever. So, yeah, so I, um, I kind of, in the middle with you guys, I think I like the video more than you, Michael. I think I like the song a little more than you, Keith.
I’m kind of, I’m kind of right down the middle, but not a favorite video, not a favorite song, but just probably, I would say on both, pretty good. And just kind of leave it at that. I think, you know, I mean, that’s all totally fair.
Next week, it’ll just be me on the podcast. I will say that. No.
I think those are those are totally valid opinions. Not putting in your top 20 is a little surprising, Keith, but… Yeah, me too.
I think it would make my top 20 new order songs. Yeah, but that, you know. And I do think Keith, you talk about this more, I think, usually than I do and I think maybe I’m missing out on that.
So I’m going to jump in and say, like, personally, how this song, like, kind of speaks to me, which is something that you’re really good at about kind of connecting the dots on. Like the lyrics on this one really have always spoken to me, especially those days of doing, uh, like overnight radio shifts and then all the club nights that all the nights you spend in clubs. And that lyric of, I used to think that the day would never come, that I’d see my light in the shade of the morning sun.
And just that idea of like, I mean, you guys were there. You remember, like, getting up in the morning and seeing the sunrise and stuff was not something we did unless we were carrying it over from the night before for a long time, because we all, you know, so many of us worked like the night shift or and did, like, you know, the club thing and the DJ thing and radio station thing. And yeah, seeing like actually waking up and seeing the light of the morning sun and feeling energized and feeling good about that was not really in our vocabulary at that time.
And I think as I got older and started to appreciate that more and like kind of slid into that lifestyle, this song has taken on a lot more meaning for me than it did. I think at the time it did too, just in a way of like, wow, I wonder if I’m ever going to get there to that place because I’m not there right now. You know, I’m staying up until 4 or 5 in the morning trying to wind down from the club or whatever.
And so this song does have maybe a more personal meaning to me than a song like Blue Monday, which doesn’t really, you know, connect to me on like a lyrical level. And so maybe that’s that’s part of this too. It’s also, again, that extended remix with the intro just absolutely slays, like, man, in the club, that those synth hits that build to that, like, and it just builds it builds and builds it so freaking loud, like in a club, it just absolutely rattles the walls and then it goes into the song.
That’s not necessarily on this version that you hear on substance or that you hear on some of the other compilations. So that, that actually adds a lot to the song for me, and it’s one of the reasons that I love it so much, so that could also affect, you know, how the song hits you, but that is something I thought about while you were, while you were talking, Keith, about, you know, how the song, like, connected to you personally, is like, you know, I don’t ever usually mention that when I talk about these, but this song does connect to me personally, and maybe that’s why I have more of an affinity for it, than, you know, someone else might. But anyway, I 100% respect your opinions on it.
You know, one thing we didn’t talk about. The one thing I do truly appreciate about New Order is what Peter Hook does with his bass guitar. And this song is a prime example of that.
Like, if you really listen to what he is doing with a with a bass guitar. And what is pretty much an electronic song. Man, he is he is a slap in the bass and this thing is working.
And that’s very, very common in New Order songs, especially early on. But even as they got more and more electronic. He was still doing whatever that is he does.
It’s just so unique and so incredible what that guy does with a bass. So yeah, none of us mentioned that, but we should have. That’s that’s a big part of New Order sound and a really good one.
Yeah, my favorite bass player of all time actually is Peter Hook. I, you know, we’ll sing the praises of Simon Gallop from the cure from here to the end of time, but if I have to pick my number one, it’s Peter Hook. I love that guy.
I will say one more thing real quick just about the fact that I said it’s not in my top 20. And frankly, it’s not in my top 20. But that really has more to do with how much I love other new order songs than it does with disliking this song.
I really do like true faith. It is not a bad song and I don’t want to diss it at all. I really do like it.
It’s just, to me, they have such a strong catalog that there are, like I said, there are at least 20 or other songs that I that I would take before. I would take this one, but that’s not to kneecap this song at all. It’s a great song.
It’s just, for my money, they have such a strong catalog that there are other things that I, you know, I like better. And before I quit here. I do want to say who I mentioned temptation was my favorite of their songs.
The substance version of Temptation, not the original. You’ve got to have the substance version where they kind of gave that kind of big, massive, just, you know, behemoth, some form and structure that it didn’t have in its original form. So when I say temptation is my favorite new order song.
I’m talking about the substance version of temptation, for sure. would agree with that. Which speaks to Scott’s, like, it’s a little difficult to follow new order sometimes because there are these, like, alternate versions and extended versions and, like, what’s an album, what’s a compilation, but substance is a great place to start. The versions on substance are all pretty pretty solid across the board.
It’s a real, I mean, it is. I mean, I don’t think I’m saying anything that people probably don’t already know, but like if you are getting into New Order for the 1st time, You know, start with substance, that’s going to give you a great overview of kind of their early career. It is usually the best version of those songs, even if it isn’t like the extended mix of true faith.
It’s still, you know, those versions are solid across the board, um, ceremony, temptation, all those kind of shell shocked, you know, all of that is on there. Um, and is, it’s, I mean, it’s just a good place to start. Even in this world of streaming where, you know, you just kind of pick songs out of the ether, like, go start, like, pick those songs off of substance, because with some bands, it maybe doesn’t matter where that streaming song comes from, if it comes from a greatest hit or whatever, with new order, it kind of does.
Like go to go to the page for substance and then stream the songs off of that and you’ll get, you know, usually the superior versions of those. Well, I think that that’s interesting because you can just go to like a streaming site and just pull down their songs because they are a single span for the most part. That’s why they have so many compilations because a lot of these songs are just singles.
But if they do have, at least for me, I know you guys are probably going to disagree with this, but if they do have an album that I think you should listen to from beginning to end. It’s power corruption and wise. Um, that that album, you know, flows as an album more so than I think a lot of their their other stuff does.
Like I said, I’m sure that you guys might have a different one in mind, but for me, that’s like the one new order album that I will sit down and listen to in its entirety. The rest of their stuff I can listen to, a song at a time and, you know, out of order and whatever, and it doesn’t seem to matter. Yeah, no, I think that’s fair.
I think they were more album oriented back then. I would agree with that too, although I would say technique, I think, also holds together really well. But yeah, power corruption and lies.
Technique is just a collapsed, yeah. Yeah, I think it holds. It’s technique is just a blast of an album.
It’s so, and it, and it, and it, within the 1st 20 seconds of that album, it has smacked you across the face and just, you know, just grabs your throat and drags you down just an incredible road. That is a fun, fun, fun album. Yeah, very very good.
All right, I think we have fully covered new order. I mean, we could talk about New Order for hours and hours and hours. If, for some reason, you’re one of those people who haven’t heard new order, go, go start streaming new order immediately.
Well, finish this podcast, then then go start. We got some other stuff to talk about. In fact, Mr. Mr. Scott Mobley has something else to talk about.
So I had a little bit of trouble picking a song for this one, and mostly because there’s on this list for this month, there’s a lot of bands that I really like, all doing songs that I don’t particularly care for aren’t my favorites by them. So I picked one of those. And I chose Seattle by Public Image Limited.
She walks around, like, the rights, I’m on your bucket, you’ll be all right. minded, buddy, I’m not gonna spend a whole lot of time talking about the history of this band because all you really need to know is that this is the project that John Lyden, a.k.a. Johnny Rotten, took on after the Sex Pistols broke up. So he formed this band with a guy named Keith Levine, who was a founding member of the Clash, but he left them before they ever recorded any music.
So that’s why his name doesn’t sound familiar, but he was one of the guys that sort of put the clash together and then disappeared before they did anything. So him and John Lyden start this band. It really has just been a revolving door of musicians over the years, whoever John Liden feels like rocking out at any given time or what sound he’s going for.
It’s, you know, considering it had this huge revolving door of musicians and their lead singer or their, you know, their creator, I guess, is sort of a celebrity. There’s really not any impressive or notable names on the list of people that have come through this band. So it really is just John Liden’s solo project.
It always kind of has been that. So when they 1st started, um, they were very avant-garde, very experimental, Leiden wanted to do something kind of completely different from the Sex Pistols, and he used his fame. you know, to put together a band and get that done. Like the stuff, especially their 1st album, would have never come out if it wasn’t him doing it.
And that 1st album, it’s called 1st issue. This is a complete mess. They ran out of money while they were recording it.
It sounds very kind of stapled together. It’s just this big catastrophe of an album. But after that, they release their 2nd album, which is now kind of out there as 2nd edition.
At the time, it was called the Metalbox. And the reason for that was, this is pretty cool. It was released as 3 vinyl records that played at 45 RPM and they came in like a film canister with a PIL sticker in the middle of it.
I have a feeling if you have one of those, it might be worth a buck or two. It’s a really cool packaging idea, and I don’t think they sold a whole bunch of them. Anyway, that album, 2nd edition or metal box, whichever, however you find it, is really widely considered to be one of the masterpieces of post-punk.
It’s very improv, it’s very experimental, has touches of goth, a little bit of dub, a little bit of electronica. It’s just an album that’s way, way ahead of its time. So each passing album.
Leiden gets a little further away from the experimental stuff and the avant-garde stuff, starts making more commercially friendly music. After that, there’s like 3 albums before the one we’re about to get to. They have a couple of mild hits.
The most biggest one is probably, this is not a love song, and there’s a couple others. So this song is the opening track for their 1987 album Happy. which at the time was not very well received by their fans, because they’d pretty much gone to be a full mainstream pop band at this point. At least the label thought so because they started pushing them pretty hard at this point.
They got the gig opening for NXS on the kick tour, which is pretty big. And then they went on tour with New Order and the sugar cubes as the monsters of alternative rock. I’m not sure where PIL was on that bill, but I would guess they probably were first.
I’m going to assume the new order headlined to that. And then they do have some pedigree with John Lyon being in the band, but, you know, at that time, this would have been 87, 88. The sugar cubes were red hot.
So I have a feeling PIL was going 1st on that. So I was a big fan of the album that came after this one. It’s called nine, and I think it has what’s probably their biggest hit on its song called Disappointed.
That’s one of the reasons I almost didn’t take this song, is I have a feeling that one’s coming up pretty soon on this 120 minutes thing, but I went ahead and did it anyway, but that sounds great, and that album is great. This song, Seattle, is fine. I don’t think it’s great.
I’t think it’s terrible either. It’s a pretty straightforward, kind of generic public image limited song. I think if you’ve never heard these guys and this is your 1st go with this band, you’re probably not going to get pushed in one direction or the other.
It’s kind of just, it’s kind of just there. And I’d never seen this video, but it was exactly what I expected. Lots and lots and lots of John Lyden.
I think the I think the other 3 musicians in the band get a grand total of about 40 frames of screen time. If you’ve ever seen interviews with this guy, I mean, especially recently where he’s asked about the pistols and his musical pass, whatever, it is no secret that he thinks very highly of himself. So, you know, it’s a it’s a fine song.
It’s a fine video, and but from what I think is a pretty interesting and noteworthy band. I’m just not sure this particular moment in their history is all that interesting. So I would recommend checking out Metalbox, especially if you’re a fan of like Bauhaus or the other 70s goth stuff.
If you like the more pop driven, kind of polished stuff, I would recommend checking out the album nine. It’s super slick. It’s way overproduced, but it’s really kind of fun, and it has some great songwriting on it.
It’s a good one. I will say this to kind of wrap it up. Overall, I think your like or dislike of this band will depend entirely on what you think of John Lyton as a vocalist.
If you like what he does, and I kind of do, then somewhere in all this diverse music and, you know, from the avant-garde to the super poppy or everything in between, this project has probably produced something that you’ll like. But if his delivery annoys you, and I know that is the case with a lot of people, and you are probably never going to like this band, there’s just nothing they’re going to do that’s going to turn you on, because his vocals are the center of all of it. So, um, that’s Public Image Limited, Seattle.
I don’t, you know, I’ve never talked to you guys about this band or anything, so I’m kind of curious where you are with them or what you think and what you thought of this? First note I wrote down was lots of John Lyden being John Lyden if you’re into that. Like, and that’s it, man.
If you like this dude, you will like this song. You’re probably like PIL, and you probably are a huge Pistols fan as well. I don’t like John Liden that well that much, so I did not like this song, in particular.
I never was a fan of PIL and I never really, even at KTXT when we played them, that was one of those where I just kind of would like turn the volume down and do whatever until the song was about to run out. Like, I really just don’t like him. Which is funny because it’s not that I don’t like the pistols. you know, I don’t know that I would ever I certainly never bought a Pistols album and I wouldn’t say they’re on like a playlist or anything, but…
What did you think of world destruction? That I do like. See, that’s a different… it is different.
Musically, it’s very different, but it’s still his vocals. That’s why I break it up. It’s his vocals.
I think if you dug more into PIL, you’d find something that you might like. And I only say that because musically, it’s very, very, very diverse. The only constant, like the common denominator is his voice.
But if he’s recorded something that you, his voice didn’t bother you, then there might be something for you somewhere. I have a feeling at KTXT, we were playing the early stuff that’s very, very strange. Yeah, it is.
Yeah, it definitely was. And I was not as I was not super open to it. And I don’t have like an instant dislike of John Lyon by any stretch.
Like, I mean, he has, obviously, like what is now an iconic, you know, has been imitated a 100 times. So in a previous episode, we talked about Black Flag and Henry Rollins, and I was asking, you know, because I don’t know my punk history. He has that iconic Southern California punk voice, and it’s been imitated and kind of built upon by other Southern California rock bands or bands that wanted to be Southern California punk bands.
And I think John Lyden’s the same thing for UK punk bands. Like he has that snotty, bratty voice that now you’ve heard so many times that it’s almost like a parody of itself, but he is, I mean, it’s him. He’s the originator, right?
So you do have to kind of walk that back a little bit and realize who it is that you’re listening to when you hear that. So it’s not an instant dislike. But I just never, and like I said, I like it, like pretty vacant by the Pistols is one of my favorite punk songs of all time.
I love that song. And there’s other pistol songs that I like. And I do like some of his other stuff with other, you know, that I’ve heard him with.
But PIL never quite just hit that for me. at least the stuff I’ve been, you know, exposed to, and this certainly is not one of their best, and I think you would agree with that. My only other note on this was that this, in case you’re wondering, this video was not shot in ZL, it has nothing to do with Seattle. The song actually has nothing to do with Seattle.
Yeah, I’m not sure where the title come from. So I was curious because having lived in the Pacific Northwest, I was like, I wonder much, much like Paul Westerberg and his song about Portland, like is there a, is there a connection with, did they do a show up there? There’s this, if you go and try to do the research on the internet, there are a lot of people who will say, oh, yeah, they did this really terrible show where Mud Honey opened for him or Green River opened for him, which was an earlier version of those guys, and, like, they slagged off on him, so they were really mad and they hated Seattle, and so they wrote this song.
That’s not the case. I mean, that show may have happened, and that beef may have happened, but this song is not about that. I was going to say, where you’d get that out of this song.
Well, because, and that was why, like, I heard the lyrics to the song and I was thinking, okay, this, they’re not really talking about Seattle. They don’t seem to be particularly mad about anything. And so I did the research and there are people that were like, you know, that told that story, but then there’s an interview with John Lyden, where he flat out says, because she asked him, she’s like, you know, there’s a song Seattle, does that have any meaning?
And he’s like, no, we wrote the song about council flats, which are the kind of like the, the, government housing in the UK is what the song is actually about. Um, and she’s like, why, you know, why is it called Seattle? And he’s like, we rode it while we were in Seattle.
That’s the only connection. So if you’re wondering and you’re watching the video and you’re like, this doesn’t look like Seattle, it doesn’t seem like he’s talking about Seattle, he’s not. So that’s that is the connection or at least straight from him.
Uh, if you’re one, if you were wondering, which I was. Well, for me, you know, I had not a huge public image, limited fan. I don’t have any other albums.
I do have the greatest hits, disc, and for me, even that, which is just the singles. It’s pretty hit or miss. But when they hit, they hit really hard.
I like these guys when they’re on for me. And this, for me, is a song where they’re on. I actually really like this one.
I like the guitar, Arpeggios, I think, are really cool, the kind of jagged bass part in there is really cool. So yeah, I think I like the song maybe better than either of you guys did. Certainly like the band better than you do, Mike.
But I can’t, at the same time, claim to be a huge public image limited fan. I do tend to kind of trend toward the droners, like rise and the body are probably 2 of my favorite PIL songs. But I do like the pop songs too.
Um, you know, uh, what’s the what was the new song on the greatest hits, uh, album? It’s now escaping me. That’s a good one.
Another one of the pop songs, and it’s a really good one. So yeah, I do like them and I kind of like all the facets of them, but even having said that, like there’s stuff on the greatest hits album that I will skip over that, I just don’t think are particularly good songs. So as far as the video goes, the only note I made about the video is that Johnny Liden’s jacket appeared to have been made by the same tailor that made David Burns big suit from the stop making sense, talking heads.
Because, yeah, that jacket appeared to be about 8 sizes too big for him. But otherwise, yeah, the video is pretty generic and yeah, like I say, a lot of Johnny Liden. So if you are annoyed by him, you’re probably not going to like the video.
But yeah, I like this song. And I like a lot of their songs. I don’t think they’re great. but I do give them a lot of credit for taking big stabs occasionally.
And I like the fact, or what they have done since they’ve kind of morphed more into a pop band, you know, in the later part of their 80s run. So, yeah, this works for me. I enjoyed it.
And yeah, I think I liked this song more than either of you guys did, actually. Yeah, you mentioned the body. That song is also on this album.
And, um, was the 2nd single after this song. And I think that song is way better than this one. Um, I, that song is, it’s almost kind of like a spiritual sequel to a a song, a sex pistol song called Bodies, both kind of themed around abortion, but I think that song is way better than than this one.
And I have a feeling if I dig, if I go down the list on 120 minutes.org here in a minute, I’ll find that song because it did have a video and it was released right after this song off of this album. You’re not going to have to, that’s a good one. too far ahead, actually for that. Yeah, I would say to you, Keith, if you like the dronier stuff more, you might want to go backwards from this, back more towards Metalbox.
Because that’s where that stuff kind of is. And I know you like some of the 70s got stuff too. Like, the Metal boxes is very much like Bauhaus.
That’s the easiest thing to compare it to. That’s the comp. So, the songs are very long.
They’re kind of droney. they’re kind of, you know, kind of dark. You know, that’s that’s more the early part of PIL. They get popier and popular with each passing album.
And we’re about this album is probably about halfway between the beginning and the end. Don’t ask me. what that song I was trying to think, a minute ago. It’s called yeah.
Yeah. Another one of their popular ones and a great pop song too, but… Oh, I love their poppy stuff.
Like I said, the album after this, which is called nine. I think most people have probably heard disappointed. That was a pretty big song.
But that album’s pretty good cover to cover, but it is wildly overproduced. Like horns and keyboards and orchestras and all kinds of stuff. It’s just a big, big production that is, which are not what you’re hearing early on with these guys.
So it really has been a pretty eclectic journey for them. And that’s kind of why I say, you know, I think as long as you’re not one of those people that finds John Lyden annoying, you might, there might be something somewhere in the catalog for you. But there are people out there that find this guy’s voice to be nails on a chalkboard, and I totally understand that.
And if that’s you, there is nothing for you here. So this has been interesting this episode. We’ve had a few episodes where it was just like this across the board, kind of like praise and like, wow, we’ve, you know, we love everything and this has been great and we’ve been a little more hit or miss on this episode, particularly with a lot.
I mean, concrete blonde, I think, across the board, was a thumbs up, but we’ve been a little more hit or miss. The other one of the other trends that we’ve had is that the mystery song has really delighted us for episode after episode. There’s been very few that have not, like, rung our bell and where we like, oh, man, we got to dig into this band or I can’t believe we missed this.
I’m wondering if that streak ends today. We’ll see. I’m curious.
Well, I picked this week’s mystery song and I really liked it. So it didn’t end with me, but let me get there first. The band we’re going to talk about today is called Mood 6.
Now, I don’t know what happened in the 1st 5 moods, but for today’s purposes, we’re only concerned with mood six. And the song is called I saw the Light. Because I saw The light.
In your eyes, in your eyes, eyes So we had… I just never would suspect the things… I…
Pick my songs. I always do it, my mystery songs, I always go through and, you know, just watch the videos and just see what grabs and brought off the bat. And the reason this one grabbed me is because we have in the past, both on the 35,000 watts podcast talking about college radio and then in the early days talking about 120 minutes, kind of talked about the fact that, you know, especially at KTXT.
We called ourselves alternative. But what we weren’t really playing a certain genre of music. We were playing, you know, kind of the different things from, you know, a little bit of off the beaten path of country and off rock and off electronic and just kind of the alternative versions of a lot of different stuff.
And when I heard this song, I was like, okay, finally, we have an alternative version of like 70s AM gold, like light rock. That’s what we got here. That was the 1st thing that leapt into my mind.
And I really actually liked the song. I did not realize it was a cover until Scotty mentioned that it was a cover of a Todd Rundgren song. So I thought, well, okay, let me go listen to the Todd Rungren song.
And it turns out this is actually a pretty straight cover of the Todd Rundgren song. And so I was thinking, well, maybe I’ve got a, you know, kind of a different skewed view on this band. Maybe they aren’t what I what I think they are, just because they just covered the songs, why they sound that way.
So then I went and listened to some more mood 6 stuff. And sure enough, they they are not a 70s light rock kind of combo. I mean, they are much more of like an 80s new wave kind of thing.
And I listened to 2 or 3 different songs, all of which I thought were kind of new wavy. One of them had some really interesting keyboard in it, kind of almost atonal keyboard. I thought that was kind of cool.
One of them had a very like Smith’s-like vibe to it. But there’s there wasn’t a whole lot else to dig in on these guys, but after listening to more of their stuff. This song, the cover of I saw the light, is really not terribly representative of what they do.
But like I said, man, I loved the song, both their version and the Todd Rundgren version. So if you guys didn’t like it, we’ll get to that here in a second. Mood 6, there wasn’t a whole lot of information about these guys.
They were formed in London in 1982. It seems like they had 6 or 7 members. I mean, it was kind of hard.
Like one guy was listening, a couple of guys were listening as being the drummer, but also listened as being contemporaneous in the band at the same time. And this music clearly does not have 2 drummers in it. So I’m not sure what was going on there.
But the singer’s name was Phil Ward. The guitar player was Tony Conway. They were the kind of the big guys pushing the band forward.
They had 3 albums and a handful of other singles that came out between 82 and 97. They were actually together a little longer than I would have thought they had been, but they cannot just disappear after that. I don’t know what happened to him.
I don’t know what the story was, why they broke up or what happened. You know, there was no real, nothing really to dig in on that. This song, like I said, it was hard to get track listings on their albums because again, there’s not a whole lot of information about them.
This song, the cover of I saw the light, appears to be to have just been a single from 1987. Um, but they did have an album out in 86. So it’s possible that this song actually appeared on that album in 86, but it was definitely released as a 12 inch single.
So maybe there’s an extended mix of it out there. Who knows? But it was definitely released as a 12 inch single in 87.
So I kind of feel like this song might have been a standalone thing, but I really liked it. Like I said, I got kind of the disco-y light rock AM 70s gold vibe from it, as I did with the Todd Rundgren song when I wouldn’t listen to that. The video is fairly generic.
It’s just the guys, you know, doing performance somewhere in in a city somewhere. I’m not sure if that’s London or where that is. They do look very like 80s British, though.
They’ve all got the kind of mullet type haircuts and are wearing the big Mac style raincoats and all that. These are very, very 80 British dudes. But man, I liked this.
I liked it a lot. And even when I picked it, I kind of had the feeling that I might be ending our streak of all of us being on the same page with these things, but not only did I like the song. Also, like I said, it jumped out at me as like, aha, here is the alternative version of 70s AM gold, even though that turns out not to be what the band actually is.
But I liked it. So yeah, what did you guys think? So I was a little surprised that you didn’t know this song.
I’m not the biggest Todd Rungren fan in the world, but I mean, there was this was 3 seconds in, and I went, oh, it’s that Todd Rungorn song. I actually would have guessed that this was Todd Runhorn’s biggest hit, but it’s not. It’s probably number two, but behind, hello, it’s me.
But anyway, I didn’t, I wanted also to listen to more of this band, and I didn’t get to do that. I did notice that in their, like in their bio and stuff, they’re described as neo psychedelic, which definitely describes the Rungren song as well. And I think that’s kind of what where I landed with this, was that it’s a fine cover, but it does nothing different to the song.
It’s basically just a straight up cover of the Todd Rudgren song. And it’s so I’ve always kind of thought with covers, you know, if you’re not going to do anything different, don’t bother, and that’s kind of where I land with that. I won’t say that I didn’t like it.
I liked it because I liked this song and I like, you know, I think it’s a pretty solid cover of it. But the question that arose for me. And you kind of touched on this a little bit, you know, maybe the definition of an alternative or whatever, but why this song on 120 minutes?
Like, it’s a very safe cover of what was already a very safe pop song. I know this band has a little bit of pedigree, like they were in some other punk bands or mod bands or whatever. So I wouldn’t call them a supergroup because never heard of any of them, but, you know, they kind of had some punk pedigree, I guess.
So maybe that’s why, but I just, I watched this and I couldn’t, I couldn’t put my finger on why somebody at MTV went, oh, yeah, that’s, that’s got to go on 120 minutes, you know? I just, it was just kind of strange that way. But yeah, I cannot say I didn’t like it.
I liked it fine. It just didn’t, it just didn’t do anything new or original for me that made it stick out. Yeah, I didn’t like it a lot.
My note was that it sounds like a throwaway Sean Cassidy song initially. I think even though you guys are correct, that it is essentially a straight, as straight as they come cover, I do kind of like the Todd Rundgren version better. There’s something a little bit, maybe just knowing that it’s the original and it fits its time and place better than this completely unnecessary cover of it.
Maybe that’s why I don’t particularly care for either, though. And I like some 70s AM gold style stuff. There definitely is a lot in that genre that is not great, but there are some really, really great like pearls hidden inside of that oyster.
If you do go down that rabbit hole. And there are bands that I think have built on that sound. You know, one of my favorite bands that I feel like never gets talked about enough is mid-lake, and I feel like their album, you know, Trials of Van Occupant, that half those songs could have survived very happily on 70s AM radio back in the day.
So it’s not that I’m against that genre. But yeah, I just, I think, you know, coming from the original. I don’t I don’t love the original.
It doesn’t strike me as like a really great example of 70s AM gold. And then doing a cover of it where you don’t really do anything with it. makes even less sense to me. So I dislike it for that reason as well.
It just, like, why, why not maybe try to take it in some sort of direction to bring it into the 80s or bring it into, you know, the music that you normally make as a band or, or whatever. you know, all the things that we’ve talked about in some of our episodes about covers that make covers great are not apparent in this particular cover. So it just fell really flat for me and the video is kind of the same. It’s, it’s, there’s nothing wrong with the video, but it’s, there’s nothing about it that kind of elevated the songs because sometimes that can happen where it’s like the song isn’t that great, but the video for it is so engaging or so great that it, it, it makes them, you know, both better in your eyes, but watch, but this video doesn’t really do that either.
So, yeah, I don’t want to spend too much time. I think you guys probably have more interesting takes than me just kind of slagging off on it, but it really did. It just it just fell flat.
It felt like it should have been like an album track on a Sean Cassidy song, which is kind of, I guess, a diss on Todd Runger, and I don’t mean to do that because I know people love him, and there are some songs by him that I have heard where I’ve like, oh, I’ve never been a Todd Rugger fan. But there so there have been a few times where I’m like, oh, that’s Todd Rungood. interesting. That’s that’s pretty cool song.
This is just not one of them for me. I think Todd Rundgren’s legacy when it’s all said and done will be more as a producer than a singer-songwriter. I mean, he definitely had some hits, but his work as a producer is much more, much more in the foreground, I think, of what he does.
And a lot of his songs, you know, like, I like this song. It’s definitely you’re right. It’s a it’s a 70s sort of, you know, mushy ballad kind of thing or whatever.
But I think it’s a well-written song. I just I wanted to mention this because they there used to be a show on MTV. I don’t know if you guys remember this or not, but it was called something like basement tapes or was there basement tapes?
Okay. Basement tapes, yeah. They make that garage rock music.
Um, kind of kind of a precursor to grunge a little bit. And they on that show, they used to play this song all the time. It was by a group called Naz, an AZZ, which was Todd Rudman’s band before he became a solo artist.
I cannot remember the name of the song, but it came out in like 1968 or 69. So it was like way before anything they were playing on that show at the time, but man, that song was a jam. I went to look it up before we got to this today and I didn’t get to do it.
But yeah, that, that, uh, this reminded me of that, that, like, I like that song and I like some stuff I’ve heard him do. But yeah, I really think he’s he’s going to be remembered as a producer more than a singer-songwriter. Could very well be for whatever that’s worth.
Yeah. I will say the one thing about this cover that I thought was interesting, after going and listening to the rest of, or the, you know, the other mood sick songs that I could find, is that, you know, you’re right in that they don’t do anything different with this. It is a very straight cover, and it really isn’t what they do.
I mean, like I said, the Scott mentioned that the Wikipedia page for them described them as being, you know, psychedelia. To me, it sounded like new wave, just kind of like early 80s British new wave stuff. But yeah, listening and I didn’t listen to a lot of them.
I listened to 3 or 4 songs, but yeah, this is not what they normally do. And so, yeah, it’s a little interesting that they decided to cover this song and do it as straightforward as they did without kind of putting their twist on it. That is an interesting choice.
But yeah, for me, the song was strong enough that it was fine. That, you know, it lives through that and the cover of it was fine, even though it wasn’t radically different from the original, but it was an interesting choice. I’d be interested to go back in time and get the thought process on these guys and why they didn’t kind of put their own spin on it because they really don’t sound like this for the rest of their stuff.
See, I wish I would have taken the time to go listen to more of it because I just didn’t get a chance to do that. The other the other thing I did just for fun was I I, when I 1st when this 1st came up, I thought, man, that song has to be one of those tunes has just been covered a 1000000000 times. Like, it’s because it seems kind of ubiquitous to me.
And so I looked it up. It really hasn’t. By anybody you’ve really heard of, the 2 notable names on the list of people that have covered this song are Teenage Fan Club, which we’ve talked about before, and Yola Tengo, which it’s probably easier to make a list of songs that Yola Tengo hasn’t covered, but yeah, but they’re one of the bands that have that have covered this song.
So the rest of the names were all people I didn’t recognize. I would have thought this would have been a commonly covered tune, but I guess it wasn’t. I was not familiar with it for what it’s worth.
Not that, you know, we’re starting to discover, as we go through this, that my musical knowledge is not maybe as vast as I once thought, because we’re discovering a lot of things that I didn’t know. But I wasn’t familiar with it. I can see both Teenage Fan Club and Yola Tengo covering it because they both, I could see them sliding into that 70s vibe.
They both are clearly capable of doing that. So that makes it makes sense in that in that. don’t know. I say I was surprised you guys hadn’t heard this song.
And I guess, you know, it’s not from your era. It’s not your style of music. I mean, I don’t know why you would have heard it.
It just, to me, it just seems like one of the, like, I asked my wife, if she had heard it, and she didn’t know it by name, but I put push play on it, and 5 seconds, and she goes, oh, yeah, I know that song. Like, it just seems like one of those songs that was just kind of around to me. And I, so I was, I was a little shocked you guys hadn’t heard, but I mean, at the same time, not, I don’t think you were alive when this song came out.
Michael and Keith, you were a baby like me, so I don’t know where I thought you would have heard it, but, you know, I just thought maybe you had. I mean, sometimes, you know, songs are just in the zeitgeist, but well, kind of a mixed bag this week. You know, like I said, a lot of times we’re just over the moon over all the all the songs that we’re talking about and we’re a little more a little more mixed in our opinion, but I think we can all agree.
The concrete blonde song is top notch, absolutely fantastic. 34 thumbs up. How many thumbs do we have together? Six.
Six of them. one, two, three, four. We all have 6 thumbs. yes Six thumbs up on that one. I mean, I think we all love new order. just a matter of how you want to rank their song.
I don’t think anybody was saying that true faith isn’t a great song. So that’s solid. And then, yeah, a little bit more of a mixed bag with the with the PIL and the mood six.
I don’t know. you know, PIL, I imagine. I fear already like a John Lyon fan, you probably already know about it. And if you’re not, then, like you said, you probably aren’t going to like PIL that much if you’re not RV. why I didn’t go too much into them because yeah, you either know them and like them or you don’t know them and you won’t like them.
So there’s not really a whole lot of directions to go with them. That seems fair. So, but yeah, totally interesting episode.
Looking forward to moving on to October in our next episode. Thanks to 120 minutes.org. They have compiled all these playlists from 120 minutes.
I’m sure it’s a lot of work and I know that they still to this day are getting submissions and filling out those playlists. So we really appreciate being able to go there and get all this information without us having to do the legwork and we can just kind of listen to the music and enjoy it. So that’s that’s great.
Don’t forget, there’s a movie out called 35000 watts. The story of college radio. It is available right now on Google Play on Amazon Prime on Tubi and now on YouTube.
You can see the entire movie for free. So if you want a story of college radio and some history about college radio and some interviews with people like Mark Mothersbau, Joyce Santiago, Mitch Easter, Burtis Downs, Pylon, and all, I love tractor, lots and lots and lots of great bands, are in that film, you can go check it out right now. 35,000 watts, story of college radio. Thanks to Keith Porterfield and Scott Mobley.
My name’s Michael Millard, and we’ll see you next time on 120 months!